Comments on: Seeking To Be Sustainable In An Earthquake http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/ Sustainable Living: More Joy And Less Consumption Sun, 29 Aug 2010 02:50:17 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Lisanne Pearcy http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-34263 Lisanne Pearcy Mon, 10 May 2010 11:00:19 +0000 http://www.diamondcutlife.org/?p=713#comment-34263 You've had plenty of advice from engineering types. I am a geologist. I just wanted to tell you that our worries are not a 7.0 magnitude earthquake. That would not cause major damage to most houses. I survived the Loma Prieta and so did my (older) house. No problems. The predicted "Big One" here in Oregon could be a magnitude 9.0 or thereabouts. Yes, it's not "if" but "when" we get another big quake in Oregon (last one being in the year 1700). However, it's one geologist's guess over another if we are "overdue" or not. The media tends to thrive on sensationalism and that is probably where you got the idea of "overdue." If you actually look at the reconstructed record of large subduction zone earthquakes here over the last few thousand years, it is obvious they dont' come like clockwork. It could be many hundreds of years (i.e. many generations) before the "Big One" hits Oregon. Good to be prepared, but not panicked. Cheers. You’ve had plenty of advice from engineering types. I am a geologist. I just wanted to tell you that our worries are not a 7.0 magnitude earthquake. That would not cause major damage to most houses. I survived the Loma Prieta and so did my (older) house. No problems.

The predicted “Big One” here in Oregon could be a magnitude 9.0 or thereabouts. Yes, it’s not “if” but “when” we get another big quake in Oregon (last one being in the year 1700). However, it’s one geologist’s guess over another if we are “overdue” or not. The media tends to thrive on sensationalism and that is probably where you got the idea of “overdue.” If you actually look at the reconstructed record of large subduction zone earthquakes here over the last few thousand years, it is obvious they dont’ come like clockwork. It could be many hundreds of years (i.e. many generations) before the “Big One” hits Oregon. Good to be prepared, but not panicked.

Cheers.

]]> By: Paul Graham http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-6308 Paul Graham Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:42:10 +0000 http://www.diamondcutlife.org/?p=713#comment-6308 I will not give you much more advice about "seismic upgrading" your home as some good advise has been given by "experts" who are surely more qualified than I. However, I would like to add,as a guitar and stringed instrument repairman and builder of almost 28 yrs.with forays into other fine working trades like fine furniture building and cabinetmaking,that often times the addition of metal bolts/screws actually weakens many wood joints and it is usually where a screw or bolt enters a piece of wood is where it usually cracks from.This is caused by the much different expansion/contraction characteristics of steel and wood and reaction to temparature and humidity changes.While working as a furniture repairperson I also saw many failed joints caused by some wood-be repairperson attempting to repair a failed joint or natural expansion or stress crack with metal fasteners of some kind. It is interesting to note that in Japan where there are wooden temples that have lasted many hundreds of years through many,many earth quakes of various severity,all the connections are wood to wood with no plates,bolts, nails or screws. Even well into modern times metal connections are generally avoided in large wooden structures in Japan and many of these structures have survived earthquakes of greater magnitude than what we have experienced here. Japanese carpenters have devised some extremely sophisticated all wood joints to accomidate multiple beams/joists/studs as in the corners of a wooden house. There is an excellent book called "Japanese Joinery" that details some of these.These survive quakes! I have a friend in the Marysville,WA. area that reportedly had a japanese carpenter come visit him who was both amazed and horrified at how fast American homes were completed and some of the methods that were used. In this country fabulous old-growth wood is largely viewed as fairly prolific and a resource to be used up quickly for a quick profit,even in the fine woodworking trades lamentably, so unfortunately, no one is going to spend much time doing things the optimum way or hold the materials they are working with in high regard or make the project they are working on last for hundreds or even a hundred years,quite the contrary,so trying to make your house survive a hundred year earth quake may not be a logical objective, even if you were to find the "right" engineer/architect/contractor. In addition to being a daunting task to find such people,you have the added burden to weed out the dishonest ones from the honest ones. While working on a very high end finish carpentry job on NW 23rd for a highly regarded and paid finish carpentry crew boss,I was very surprised while discussing the relative honesty of car mechanics with him,to hear him say that general contractors are typically much less honest, and that often when attempting to buy/sell (flip) a house the success of the undertaking very often fails because of the dishonesty of the contractor! But having said this ,there ARE honest ones out there but I fear they are few and far between. A few clues to weed out those dishonest ones, would be any one who advises you to go ahead without a very thorough inspection and evaluation of the foundation is either dishonest or an idiot,because during a large earthquake the foundation will probably crack,as it is brittle and doesn't want to flex with the movement of the earth, (unless specifically designed to do so) Unless it is designed to flex with steel re-bar reinforcement it would be my guess that no matter how earthquake proof the rest of the house was retrofitted with bolts,straps,etc. you would still have a house like many others (that spent far less $ on "seismic upgrades" ) with a cracked or in the worse case, a crumbled foundation. Since it is very unlikely that your old SE Portland house has a steel re-bar reinforced concrete foundation this would mean you would need to have a new foundation laid as a bare minimum. Whereas properly constucted wood homes flex with the motion of the earth concrete does not.However steel will. Bottom line ,all the bolting sill plate to the foundation,straps,etc.will not do you much good if the foundation crumbles. So I personally would not go with anyone who advises you not to replace your existing foundation,other than that I can not give much advise as I am not an engineer or house builder.However when I see how houses are often built in America I wonder if many of these folks understand the material they work with. Contraction and expansion is a real big issue with wood and this is why a bolted joint is very often not as strong as it looks. I see many woodworkers using metal fasteners with no or little regard for this characterisic of wood. Very often what LOOKS like strong is not and what DOES NOT look as strong is actually stronger in wood. For example, a glued on mortise and tenon joint in a guitar or wooden chair is MUCH stonger that a bolted or screwed on neck or chair leg,but from the perspective of someone who doesn't know wood joints quite the opposite would appear to be true. The guitar or wooden chair that receives a hard shock or blow or steady erosion over time will distribute that force or blow over a larger area evenly over both similar surfaces whereas a bolted,screwed type of joint will transfer those stresses or loads over a very small area where the screw or bolt will stress the wood unevenly causing the wood to crack,break or otherwise fail. In addition metal contracts and expands differently than wood,causing gradual erosion. Unless the contractor you plan to hire goes (to absurd by American standards of faster is better) precautions like drilling the bolt holes in plates and straps and sills to accomidate the contraction of wood which can be considerable in a wet climate like Portlands,OVERSIZE and a whole bunch of other precautions like sealing the drilled holes against moisture absorbtion,etc. you could very well end up with a weaker house or one with rot issues. This is a very complicated issue,strengthening an existing structure against motion,done unwisely could actually damage your house. A nailed wood joint house is actually fairly earthquake resistant to begin with because the wood will flex quite a bit before breaking and the nails will "creak" or slide back and forth in the joint so you have this fact on your side. Brick houses are more dangerous because they don't flex. Houses with large concrete basements/foundations more likely to fail than a much simpler pier block/crawl space wooden structure in my opinion. Bottom line is: a poorly engineered and executed "seismic retrofit" would in the worst case actually make your home less safe and more succeptable to rot ,and a really well thought out and executed one is almost impossible to imagine given the poor understanding of wood joints and/or wood joints reinforced with various metal plates,straps and fasteners,etc. by the vast majority of contractors and carpenters out there. It is possible to have a house reinforced against an earthquake but one should keep in mind that 1) a nailed wood house is already fairly flexible and that the foundation should be of primary concern and 2)bolting sill plates and strapping together joints is only much stronger and better for the house if engineered and carried out in a very detailed and thoughtful ,knowlegeable way,a skill that is very much lacking in our disposable,get it done right away society,and will by neccessity be very expensive or else not much good in my opinion (time consuming as all heck) I hope this is of some help,I believe your situation just screams out "buyer beware" Paul Graham, consultant to the stringed musical instrument and repair industry. I will not give you much more advice about “seismic
upgrading” your home as some good advise has been given by “experts” who are surely more qualified than I. However, I would like to add,as
a guitar and stringed instrument repairman and builder of almost 28 yrs.with forays into other
fine working trades like fine furniture building
and cabinetmaking,that often times the addition
of metal bolts/screws actually weakens many wood joints and it is usually where a screw or bolt enters a piece of wood is where it usually cracks from.This is caused by the much different
expansion/contraction characteristics of steel and wood and reaction to temparature and humidity changes.While working as a furniture repairperson I also saw many failed joints caused
by some wood-be repairperson attempting to repair a failed joint or natural expansion or stress crack with metal fasteners of some kind.
It is interesting to note that in Japan where there are wooden temples that have lasted many hundreds of years through many,many earth quakes of various severity,all the connections
are wood to wood with no plates,bolts, nails or screws. Even well into modern times metal connections are generally avoided in large wooden structures in Japan and many of these structures have survived earthquakes of greater magnitude than what we have experienced here. Japanese carpenters have devised some extremely sophisticated all wood joints to accomidate multiple beams/joists/studs as in the corners of a wooden house. There is an excellent book called “Japanese Joinery” that details some of these.These survive quakes!
I have a friend in the Marysville,WA. area
that reportedly had a japanese carpenter come
visit him who was both amazed and horrified at how fast American homes were completed and some of the methods that were used.
In this country fabulous old-growth wood is
largely viewed as fairly prolific and a resource to
be used up quickly for a quick profit,even in the
fine woodworking trades lamentably, so unfortunately, no one is going to spend much time doing things the optimum way or hold the
materials they are working with in high regard
or make the project they are working on last
for hundreds or even a hundred years,quite the
contrary,so trying to make your house survive a
hundred year earth quake may not be a logical objective, even if you were to find the “right”
engineer/architect/contractor. In addition to
being a daunting task to find such people,you
have the added burden to weed out the dishonest
ones from the honest ones. While working on a very high end finish carpentry job on NW 23rd
for a highly regarded and paid finish carpentry
crew boss,I was very surprised while discussing
the relative honesty of car mechanics with him,to hear him say that general contractors are
typically much less honest, and that often when
attempting to buy/sell (flip) a house the success
of the undertaking very often fails because of the
dishonesty of the contractor!
But having said this ,there ARE honest ones out there but I fear they are few and far between.
A few clues to weed out those dishonest ones,
would be any one who advises you to go ahead without a very thorough inspection and evaluation of the foundation is either dishonest
or an idiot,because during a large earthquake the
foundation will probably crack,as it is brittle and
doesn’t want to flex with the movement of the earth, (unless specifically designed to do so)
Unless it is designed to flex with steel re-bar reinforcement it would be my guess that no matter how earthquake proof the rest of the house was retrofitted with bolts,straps,etc. you would still have a house like many others (that
spent far less $ on “seismic upgrades” ) with a
cracked or in the worse case, a crumbled foundation. Since it is very unlikely that your
old SE Portland house has a steel re-bar reinforced concrete foundation this would mean you would need to have a new foundation laid
as a bare minimum. Whereas properly constucted wood homes flex with the motion of the earth concrete does not.However steel will.
Bottom line ,all the bolting sill plate to the foundation,straps,etc.will not do you much good
if the foundation crumbles. So I personally would not go with anyone who advises you not to replace your existing foundation,other than that I can not give much advise as I am not an engineer or house builder.However when I see
how houses are often built in America I wonder
if many of these folks understand the material
they work with. Contraction and expansion is a real big issue with wood and this is why a bolted
joint is very often not as strong as it looks. I see
many woodworkers using metal fasteners with no or little regard for this characterisic of wood.
Very often what LOOKS like strong is not and
what DOES NOT look as strong is actually stronger in wood. For example, a glued on mortise and tenon joint in a guitar or wooden chair is MUCH stonger that a bolted or screwed
on neck or chair leg,but from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know wood joints quite the
opposite would appear to be true.
The guitar or wooden chair that receives a hard shock or blow or steady erosion over time
will distribute that force or blow over a larger area evenly over both similar surfaces whereas
a bolted,screwed type of joint will transfer those
stresses or loads over a very small area where the screw or bolt will stress the wood unevenly
causing the wood to crack,break or otherwise
fail. In addition metal contracts and expands differently than wood,causing gradual erosion.
Unless the contractor you plan to hire goes (to absurd by American standards of faster is better) precautions like drilling the bolt holes
in plates and straps and sills to accomidate the contraction of wood which can be considerable in a wet climate like Portlands,OVERSIZE and
a whole bunch of other precautions like sealing
the drilled holes against moisture absorbtion,etc.
you could very well end up with a weaker house
or one with rot issues. This is a very complicated issue,strengthening an existing structure against
motion,done unwisely could actually damage your house. A nailed wood joint house is actually
fairly earthquake resistant to begin with because
the wood will flex quite a bit before breaking and
the nails will “creak” or slide back and forth in the joint so you have this fact on your side.
Brick houses are more dangerous because they don’t flex. Houses with large concrete basements/foundations more likely to fail than
a much simpler pier block/crawl space wooden structure in my opinion.
Bottom line is: a poorly engineered and executed “seismic retrofit” would in the worst
case actually make your home less safe and more succeptable to rot ,and a really well thought out and executed one is almost impossible to imagine given the poor understanding of wood joints and/or wood joints
reinforced with various metal plates,straps and
fasteners,etc. by the vast majority of contractors
and carpenters out there. It is possible to have a house reinforced against an earthquake but one should keep in mind that 1) a nailed wood house
is already fairly flexible and that the foundation should be of primary concern and 2)bolting sill
plates and strapping together joints is only much
stronger and better for the house if engineered
and carried out in a very detailed and thoughtful ,knowlegeable way,a skill that is very much lacking in our disposable,get it done right away society,and will by neccessity be very expensive or else not much good in my opinion (time consuming as all heck)

I hope this is of some help,I believe your situation just screams out “buyer beware”

Paul Graham, consultant to the stringed musical instrument and repair industry.

]]> By: Steven Gibson http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-6205 Steven Gibson Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:25:29 +0000 http://www.diamondcutlife.org/?p=713#comment-6205 Hello, My name is Steven Gibson, owner of Steven Gibson Construction. Our family owned business has been established for 28+ years and we are fully licensed, bonded, and insured. If you are still interested in having your home become earthquake friendly, please give me a call at (503) 320-0347. Take care. Hello,
My name is Steven Gibson, owner of Steven Gibson Construction. Our family owned business has been established for 28+ years and we are fully licensed, bonded, and insured.

If you are still interested in having your home become earthquake friendly, please give me a call at (503) 320-0347.

Take care.

]]> By: Jubal Prevatte http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-6117 Jubal Prevatte Sat, 30 May 2009 23:14:02 +0000 http://www.diamondcutlife.org/?p=713#comment-6117 Everything you need to consider and more has already been pointed out so I won't waste your time doing it again. I would like to let you know that I am available to meet and see exactly what your needs are and how they can be met in a timely, cost conscience and earth friendly way. I have been in the remodeling trades for 25 years and gained valuable experience in seismic upgrades in the S. F. Bay area. In PDX I have done both commercial T.I. work and residential additions and improvements. My ccb is active and I have an informal team of subs with skills and certifications in structural steel work and other relevant areas. Everything you need to consider and more has already been pointed out so I won’t waste your time doing it again. I would like to let you know that I am available to meet and see exactly what your needs are and how they can be met in a timely, cost conscience and earth friendly way.

I have been in the remodeling trades for 25 years and gained valuable experience in seismic upgrades in the S. F. Bay area. In PDX I have done both commercial T.I. work and residential additions and improvements. My ccb is active and I have an informal team of subs with skills and certifications in structural steel work and other relevant areas.

]]> By: bill ruddick http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-6024 bill ruddick Thu, 28 May 2009 14:22:50 +0000 http://www.diamondcutlife.org/?p=713#comment-6024 a carpenter with 40 years in the trades, seismic upgrades involve a lot of work, ie; stripping exterior siding, adding studs per engineered plans, drilling into foundation and epoxying threaded bolts into place to install hold down brackets, shear wall construction, straps at the belly band if more than 1 story and then reinstallation of siding and trim, all of this needs to be done with city inspections and testing labs inspections. good luck a carpenter with 40 years in the trades, seismic upgrades involve a lot of work, ie; stripping exterior siding, adding studs per engineered plans, drilling into foundation and epoxying threaded bolts into place to install hold down
brackets, shear wall construction, straps at the
belly band if more than 1 story and then reinstallation of siding and trim, all of this needs to be done with city inspections and testing labs inspections. good luck

]]> By: charles barton http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-5967 charles barton Wed, 27 May 2009 07:47:19 +0000 http://www.diamondcutlife.org/?p=713#comment-5967 It just occured to me you might want to consider a Aseroid shelter. I have built 2 both in Ca. No joke! One was actually built in light of Y2K. One was more of a 12-20-2012 kind of thing. This is not a joke. 650)996-2998 Charlie It just occured to me you might want to consider a Aseroid shelter. I have built 2 both in Ca. No joke! One was actually built in light of Y2K. One was more of a 12-20-2012 kind of thing. This is not a joke. 650)996-2998 Charlie

]]> By: charles barton http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-5965 charles barton Wed, 27 May 2009 07:21:56 +0000 http://www.diamondcutlife.org/?p=713#comment-5965 Love to have the job. I have personaly built homes in four western states. All with varying degrees of siesmic protection. I joined the carpenters union in 1978 and spent 10 years with them building custom homes smack on top of the San Andreas fault (Portola Valley Ca.) Steep property, huge foundations. Mostly pier and grade beam design. It was not uncommon to see the piers down 40 feet before the engineer would sign off. 2 pairs of #5 bar continuous with corner details (more steel) and plenty of vertical bars as well. Loads of J bolts on varied oc spaceings. This was before sstb type holddown bolts were used. Back when pneumatic nailers were illegal on union jobs.The Lake Tahoe region seemed less worried about earthquakes and more concerned with snow loads. Big foundations, big framing. Loads of hardware. Before I left we're seeing big hds and 4x6-8 mudsills. Hd 20's clear to the roof. In Reno, Nev. the problem is not so much with snow loads or siesmic, they build to protect from windshear. Modest foundations, but intense shear walls. This is were we learned you can't stagger 10d common nails on a 2" oc spaceing without cleaveing your 2x6. This is when we began doubling the studs on all panels edges. Then on to 4x6 on your 4 foot centers. When I overbuilt everything in Oregon in the early 90's. I was embarassed in front of my peers. I thought the lazy contractors (engineers) were asleep at the wheel. One new home in Portland, Ore. does not make me an expert on new constuction in this region. Many remodels,though, lent me good insight on building practices up here over the years. Finally I checked out Wa. I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your neighborhood down. (probably could) Not mine though. Only floating homes and log cabins here so what do I know! (Don't bring a level to a floating job sight) How to bolt that house down? I have done many siesmic upgrades (Loma Prieta, I think it was) I have installed complete foundations under existing homes no less than 4 times. 1 of those needed an 8 foot lift. I would urge you to consider looking at your foundation closely, it may need to be replaced. When we were mostly not bolting our homes down on their foundations was a fair time ago. Or the builder that wet set a sill plate (mudsill) with no bolts then built a house on it maybe was not concerned about the foundation either. If your access makes your plan expensive then mayhaps you need a bid for a new foundation and apply the money there. All the best. If you need another qoute we are licensed in Oregon. Love to have the job. I have personaly built homes in four western states. All with varying degrees of siesmic protection. I joined the carpenters union in 1978 and spent 10 years with them building custom homes smack on top of the San Andreas fault (Portola Valley Ca.) Steep property, huge foundations. Mostly pier and grade beam design. It was not uncommon to see the piers down 40 feet before the engineer would sign off. 2 pairs of #5 bar continuous with corner details (more steel) and plenty of vertical bars as well. Loads of J bolts on varied oc spaceings. This was before sstb type holddown bolts were used. Back when pneumatic nailers were illegal on union jobs.The Lake Tahoe region seemed less worried about earthquakes and more concerned with snow loads. Big foundations, big framing. Loads of hardware. Before I left we’re seeing big hds and 4×6-8 mudsills. Hd 20’s clear to the roof. In Reno, Nev. the problem is not so much with snow loads or siesmic, they build to protect from windshear. Modest foundations, but intense shear walls. This is were we learned you can’t stagger 10d common nails on a 2″ oc spaceing without cleaveing your 2×6. This is when we began doubling the studs on all panels edges. Then on to 4×6 on your 4 foot centers. When I overbuilt everything in Oregon in the early 90’s. I was embarassed in front of my peers. I thought the lazy contractors (engineers) were asleep at the wheel. One new home in Portland, Ore. does not make me an expert on new constuction in this region. Many remodels,though, lent me good insight on building practices up here over the years. Finally I checked out Wa. I’ll huff and I’ll puff and I’ll blow your neighborhood down. (probably could) Not mine though. Only floating homes and log cabins here so what do I know! (Don’t bring a level to a floating job sight) How to bolt that house down? I have done many siesmic upgrades (Loma Prieta, I think it was) I have installed complete foundations under existing homes no less than 4 times. 1 of those needed an 8 foot lift. I would urge you to consider looking at your foundation closely, it may need to be replaced. When we were mostly not bolting our homes down on their foundations was a fair time ago. Or the builder that wet set a sill plate (mudsill) with no bolts then built a house on it maybe was not concerned about the foundation either. If your access makes your plan expensive then mayhaps you need a bid for a new foundation and apply the money there. All the best. If you need another qoute we are licensed in Oregon.

]]> By: West Pac http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-5944 West Pac Tue, 26 May 2009 22:26:52 +0000 http://www.diamondcutlife.org/?p=713#comment-5944 Would like to offer our services of in house engineering threw self performing installations. Will pull a permit so your insurance can upgrade your insurance and ads to resale value. Would like to offer our services of in house engineering threw self performing installations. Will pull a permit so your insurance can upgrade your insurance and ads to resale value.

]]> By: Alison Wiley http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-5941 Alison Wiley Tue, 26 May 2009 21:21:51 +0000 http://www.diamondcutlife.org/?p=713#comment-5941 Wow. I'd call that a good variety of perspectives. I'm following up with a few people via email and phone (not via this comments section). Thanks. Wow. I’d call that a good variety of perspectives. I’m following up with a few people via email and phone (not via this comments section). Thanks.

]]> By: dwight spacek http://www.diamondcutlife.org/seeking-to-be-sustainable-in-an-earthquake/comment-page-1/#comment-5938 dwight spacek Tue, 26 May 2009 20:28:52 +0000 http://www.diamondcutlife.org/?p=713#comment-5938 ccb#172128 Read other posts,good advise. Would pull permit and inspect to certify work by city. ccb#172128 Read other posts,good advise. Would pull permit and inspect to certify work by city.

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